[ archief ] Bellen via ACN

[Gast]

Maar om weer terug te komen op het forum onderwerp: Bellen met ACN:

Mijn mening: Niets mis mee. (ben dan ook vertegenwoordiger! )

Wil er nog iemand klant worden van ACN? Je kunt bij mij terecht hoor!

[Gastje 2]

bbrrrrrr natuurlijk wil ik niet bellen met acn !!

Proletus horrorificus dat zijn ze hehehhehhee.

niet te vertrouwen dat ACN !!

[Gast]

bbrrrrrr natuurlijk wil ik niet bellen met acn !!

Proletus horrorificus dat zijn ze hehehhehhee.

niet te vertrouwen dat ACN !!

Naar boven

Onderbouw je stelling eens Gastje2, je roept alleem maar in het luchtledige

[Gastje 2]

Ik onderbouw niks meer lees maar eens pagina 2 , 3, 4 etc etc.

ACN SUCKS

hihi

[Gast]

Één enkele rechter van het Federale Hof besliste vandaag dat

aspecten van van bedrijfs acn modelbreuk s65AAC van het Akte 1974 van

Handelspraktijken.



ACN bedoelt het besluit op het Volledige Federale Hof een beroep te

doen.ACN verwacht dat het vele maanden alvorens het resultaat van een beroep wordt gekend zal zijn,

Ondertussen, ACN zal met zaken als gebruikelijk verdergaan en zal zich bij verder

het ontwikkelen van zijn volledige de dienst telecommunicatiezaken

door het land concentreren.


ACN update (19/3/2005)
I mentioned last week that I had been receiving several emails a day asking about the progress of the court case against pyramid operator ACN. The case was heard between February 23 and 25, but the judge had not yet handed down a decision. During the week I spoke to the person at the Australian Competition and Consumers Commission who was handling the court case and she told me that the judge's decision will be released next Wednesday. She is quietly confident (the ACCC usually don't go to court unless they are almost certain they can win, because the scamsters usually have more money for lawyers than they do). I was right about the tack that ACN would take in court. They claimed that they weren't violating the pyramid scheme laws because nobody was paid for recruiting - they were paid when someone they recruited brought someone else into the scheme. I am hoping that the judge recognised that a difference which makes no difference is not a difference and also recognises that this was a blatant attempt to get around the both the spirit and the black letters of the law.

Another person I spoke to about ACN this week is a director of a company which onsells telephone services. They do almost exactly what ACN claims to do except that they are a legitimate business, but they see ACN as no threat at all because ACN prices are not lower than the standard rates offered by Telstra, the biggest telco in the country. In addition, as ACN isn't really in the telephone business but is in the business of collecting signup fees from distributors, they can't see any significant portion of the legitimate market for telephone services going to ACN anyway. I was talking to this man about implementing software to improve the effectiveness of his professional sales force and he was rather amused by the claim that ACN could have acquired 40,000 fixed-line customers in three months without any advertising or cold calling. Some things simply cannot happen.

Also, in what I am sure was a coincidence, a Telstra representative rang my office on Friday afternoon to conduct a periodic review of our telephone account. (They do this about every six to eight months.) We were already getting a significant loyalty discount, but apparently we have passed another milestone and we will now be getting an additional 10% off the bill. Beat those prices, ACN! Oh, I forgot, you aren't allowed to mention cheap phone calls in the sales pitch

[Gast]

ha,ha

[Gast]

Tuurlijk! ACN zal altijd doorgaan

[Gast]

jij weet nog niet genoeg,dat vertellen ze aan je niet.

[Gast]

Ik weet alles van ACN! Doe het namelijk al 6 jaar

[Daas]

Hallo Vrienden,

Ik ben eigenlijk benieuwd in welk team je zit gast? Met 32.000 klanten ben je vast RVP, iets wat ik binnen 3 jaar ga halen. Ben nu druk bezig mijn netwerk aan het uitbreiden. Helaas heb ik ook veel te maken met de gemiddelde Hollander, zich laten leiden door vooroordelen, jammer! (ontwetenheid is de bron van vooroordelen)
Ik heb ook een team zitten in Portugal (omdat het weer daar beter is )
Binnenkort waarschijnlijk een groot bedrijf aansluiten. Ik denk dat dat wel groot nieuws gaat worden!!

Succes voor alle vertegenwoordigers (vooral die van het A-team)

[Gast]

Succes voor alle vertegenwoordigers (vooral die van het A-team)

Het A-Team? Ik vroeg me al af wat die zijn gaan doen na de jaren 80. Is Hanibal niet dood trouwens? Het is wat, zie je dat busje aan komen rijden, springt BA in je nek: 'You wanna buy my phone, suckah?'

[Gast]

Official! It's a pyramid! (26/3/2005)
This is what Mr Justice Selway had to say about ACN:

44 Given the matters to which regard may be had under s 65AAE of the Act the situation might be different if the participation payment was $200, but it is not. In my view the participation payment of $499 plus GST was ‘substantially induced by the prospect held out to new participants that they will be entitled to recruitment payments’. Consequently it is my view that the scheme is a ‘pyramid selling scheme’. In my view ACN has breached s 65AAC of the Act in participating in that scheme and in inducing and attempting to induce persons to take part in the scheme. From his affidavit and from his evidence, it is clear that Paech made the relevant decisions in relation to the scheme, including fixing the amount of the participation payment. He was knowingly concerned in the breach of the Act by ACN and ‘aided, abetted’ that breach. In my view he was a person ‘involved in the contravention of the Act’ by ACN: see s 75B of the Act.

Full judgment at http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/ ... 5/276.html, and the ACCC media release is at http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.ph ... ItemId/142.

And ACN had this to say to their distributors:

From: <mailto:[email protected]>ACN News
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 4:14 PM
Subject: ACCC Update - Australia

Australian Representatives Only

A single judge of the Federal Court today ruled that aspects of ACN's business model breach s65AAC of the Trade Practices Act 1974.

ACN intends to appeal the decision to the Full Federal Court.

ACN expects that it will be many months before the outcome of an appeal is known, during which time ACN expects the status quo will be preserved.

In the meantime, ACN will continue with business as usual and focus on further developing its full service telecommunications business throughout the country.

As such, ACN Co-Founder Mike Cupisz' National Tour in April will be more important than ever to learn how to maximise your customer acquisition.

Don't you just love the way they managed to drop in the phrase "business as usual"? What the email above means when translated from scamspeak is that ACN plans to stretch out the legal process for as long as they can while they continue to sign up both distributors and phone customers. The distributor sign-up fees will continue to be deposited in a trust fund, so distributors will not be paid their "customer acquisition bonuses". This will mean that no matter how successful any new distributor is, he will not be paid anything so he will eventually resign leaving his $500 behind. When the court finally orders that the outfit should be shut down, only those distributors who are still in the system will get their money back, everyone else will be deemed to have resigned, and the people running the scam will take whatever is left in the trust fund and run away. According to the court documents they have already collected more than $3.5 million and someone who worked in the office has told me that half of the distributors have already resigned, so there is already a nice residual in the trust fund. I wonder if the visit of the senior capo of the family will help the distributors. It will certainly help the pyramid operators because I have no doubt that it will cost money to see him, and the court won't be able to make them give that back.

You may remember that the spokesman for ACN who was telling me how great it all was said that ACN had 40,000 fixed-line customers at the end of January, 2005. According to what they said in court, they only had 28,734 customers at December 31, 2004. January must have been a very productive month, especially as they were effectively out of business because of the court order restraining their recruitment activities. I don't believe either figure (the fifth largest mobile phone network in Australia has only between 100,000 and 200,000 customers, and they have been pouring literally tens of millions of dollars into advertising over a number of years), but the fact that ACN and its official representatives tell lies is not the issue I want to address here.

According to the figures presented to the court, each distributor has signed up an average of 3.75 customers. When you take away the distributor being his own customer, that makes 2.75 customers each on average. That means that at best less than half of the distributors have qualified to receive any payment at all, either from customer acquisition or commission on sales. These distributors can be terminated at any time for non-performance, and no doubt many of them will be before the court orders the release of the trust fund money. And all the while, ACN is collecting the money from 28,734 telephone bills and passing none of it on in commissions. Nice crime if you can get it.

[Gastje 2]

Doe ons allen een plezier en geloof die ACNr"SS NOOIT !!!

Nog wat voorbeelden over deze 1e klas SUCKERS !!

Ga er maar voor zitten want deze is pittig !!

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/acn.htm

Finland
ACN claimed to have 278,000 customers in Finland, the greatest success they have had in any country. Suddenly, ACN is gone from Finland and all their customers are sold to someone else. And what happened to the distributors who were going to make their fortunes selling ACN services in Finland? They were each given a one-off payment of a few euros for each direct customer they had and then told to take a hike (or, in Finnish "takke a hikke"). You can read about the retreat here and here. Why would a company with 278,000 customers suddenly decide to go out of business? Here are some possibilities:

ACN really did have 278,000 customers in Finland and decided that more money could be made in the short term by selling the customers to another phone carrier.
ACN executives were lying about how many customers they had in Finland and decided to get out before anyone found out how badly they were really doing.
ACN could not pay the bills from their bandwidth wholesaler and handed over the customers as payment.
ACN was about to be prosecuted for their illegal pyramid scheme activities and thought that it was time to get out with all those $500 payments from distributors before some court ordered them to pay the money back.
California
ACN sells energy in the USA. California is the largest energy market in the country (and in the top ten in the world). Does ACN sell electricity in California? Not since they ran away with their tail between their legs in 2001. Read something about this here.

Pennsylvania
It was a long time ago in 2000 and only a few breaches of the law were verified, but ACN were transferring customers without telling them and overcharging some others. Why am I not surprised that people who act like crooks once acted like crooks. Read about the fines here.

One of the euphemisms used by pyramid scheme promoters is to call what they do "network marketing". The latest one of these scams to come to my attention is a network to sell the network - a pyramid of little telephone companies. This is not really a new idea. It must have been well over ten years ago, but I remember sitting in a bar with an Amway big pin who was telling me about this marvellous new idea that one of his friends had come up with. It was to buy a few thousand dollars worth of mobile telephone calls and to then resell them through a multi-level marketing scheme. Having a product got around the pyramid-selling laws, and by the time the bottom layer of suckers figured out that there wasn't much money to be made out of a small share of a finite quantity of product the top man would have banked several multiples of his initial investment and moved on to better things. Nice crime if you can get it.
A friend and I have been working for some time to establish an organisation to assist scientists and engineers who have been retrenched, downsized, outplaced, outsourced and otherwise thrown on the scrapheap to find useful work fitting their qualifications and experience. Many, perhaps most, of these people lack the marketing and organisational skills necessary to find new jobs or to work as consultants, so we are setting up the infrastructure to identify business opportunities or problems and then provide ad hoc project teams with the appropriate mix of skills. My friend was offered a deal which would provide reduced phone bills to members of the group (always a useful thing to people who no longer have well-paid jobs), free calls between members of the group (communication and peer support is something these people need) and also some income to fund the operation. Does this sound too good to be true?
Well of course it does, but it was worthwhile spending some time to see there was some possibility of there being a benefit to the group and its members. It took very little time to show that there would not be, as the offer was to join a pyramid scheme.
This particular scam goes by several names in different parts of the world, but always manages to use the acronym "ACN". It seems that the "C" stands for "communications", but that may not always be the case. In Australia and the USA, as examples, "ACN" is the complete company name.
I should point out here that ACN have done all the legal work necessary to make sure that their pyramid scheme is not classified as such under Australian laws. The most obvious one is that a major part of any distributor's income is supposed to come from something called "Customer Acquisition Bonuses". It is illegal in Australia to obtain payment for recruiting anyone into a multi-level marketing scheme, so you only get the bonus when someone whom you have recruited (or someone under them in the hierarchy) recruits someone. As it costs $500 to join the scheme, these bonuses could be quite substantial, but you are protected because the pyramid grows one level removed from you. You also have to get (within 30 days) and retain a minimum number of customers otherwise you don't get paid at all. Those customers would want to be big telephone users as well. Because it is easier for the telephone company, all the bills for lines at my one address are combined on the one statement - my home telephone, the telephone and fax lines for my business, the telephone for the Australian Council Against Health Fraud, two mobile phones, and a dial-up internet account for emergency use when the cable broadband is out of action. If I were to hand this over to an ACN distributor they would only be able to claim this as one account, and for all that business they would get abut $10 per month commission. The advantage to me as a telephone consumer would be that I would lose the loyalty discount that I get now, and with ACN's "cheaper" rates I would pay something like $50 per month more than I pay now.
You might think that the possibility of more expensive phone bills as a consequence of handing over your account to someone offering cheaper phone bills might be a disincentive to join. This is not a problem, as distributors are forbidden from mentioning that ACN can save money for people who switch their accounts. Just think about that for a moment - people trying to sell a system which offers nothing to the consumer except the possibility of cheap phone calls are not allowed to mention cheap phone calls in the sales pitch. As I said, ACN has some good lawyers. As I also said, nice crime if you can get it.
Not being allowed to mention the product is just one of the restrictions on how distributors can go about marketing ACN, but before I get onto that I would like to point out why such a policy might be enforced, as it seems to promote deceit in the sale process. Here is a scene from a promotional slide show used by ACN to tell people about the company.
Leave aside the question of why a company which started in business in Australia in only November 2004 would need such a large and glamorous head office, I would like you to closely examine the signage on the top of the building housing ACN in Australia (the rectangular sign at the top of the photograph is actually on the building behind it). Note how the electronics manufacturer Teco has the next building in the street. Now look at what ACN's Australian office block looks like at night from the other side of the Pacific Highway. Note that Teco is still next door in one street and how the sign which appears at the top of the photo in the slide above has white writing on a purple background. Also note the two quite attractive neon signs belonging to the insurance company ING, who just happens to be the major tenant in the building. Comparison of the two photographs will show that when ACN wanted to pretend that Number One Pacific Highway, North Sydney, was their office, they very carefully removed the ING signs from the photograph. Is this dishonest? Of course it is. Was I surprised? No, I wasn't. Yes, ACN does have a small office on Level 11 of the building. They might be skating as close as possible to the edges of morality and the law, but they are not stupid.
The suggestion was made that maybe the signs could not be seen on the building in daylight. This is just the sort of obfuscation one expects from liars and defenders of deceit, as no rational company would pay huge amounts of money for naming rights and building signage if it could not be seen by the tens of thousands of commuters who stream past the building each day in cars, buses, trains and ferries. Here is what the building looks like in the daytime. Note how, in altering the appearance of the building in the ACN promotional material, the artist has extended the length of the panel on the roof which holds the sign.
One of the attractions of ACN to me personally was supposed to be that I could offer cheap telephones calls to the clients of my consulting business and therefore attract and keep the clients by offering a bit more. I have already mentioned that the rules would have prevented me from mentioning the cheap phone calls, so marketing would have been a bit of a problem. As other rules prevented me from mentioning anything about ACN (or cheap phone calls) on my company's web site, or in advertising, or on my business cards, or at trade shows, or at any promotional event or seminar unless only speakers from or about ACN appeared, I can only wonder about how I would tell my clients about what was for sale. The reason that I could not advertise in the newspapers or say anything on my web site is that only warm marketing is permitted under ACN's rules. This restriction is applied because friends and relatives are far less likely to complain about failed opportunities and sneaky business practices than strangers are. Did I mention the clever lawyers at ACN?
So why would anyone go into a business where they were not allowed to sell to anyone other than friends or family, not allowed to even mention the business to strangers, and not allowed to mention the only product that the business has to offer? The short answer is that nobody would. The long answer is that nobody would and ACN don't expect them to. These rules are not there to be obeyed, they are there to give ACN cause to terminate contracts, take over all the income streams created by distributors and dismiss the distributors without payment. I have mentioned those clever lawyers, haven't I?
The scout for ACN who was trying to recruit my friend wanted to have a three-way telephone conversation including me. Strangely, for someone working with a large telecommunications supplier, there were suggestions that I should initiate (and pay for) the interstate call and then invite the third party. I asked my friend to ask the scout two questions which were bothering me. The first was to find out the outcome of the eight charges of pyramid selling brought by Industry Canada against ACN's Canadian operation in 2002. The other question was why a multinational telecommunications company (with its own impressive office building in North Sydney) needed to share web hosting costs by having their web site hosted in Canada. The first answer was that was just some disgruntled distributors who were losers and failures who had complained because they had not been able to succeed. There was no answer to the second question. After these questions the scout never contacted me again. I wonder why.
So, can anyone succeed financially selling cheap telephone calls through ACN? The answer is no. (See here for some calculations.) Is an ACN distributorship a legitimate business? No, it isn't, because there is no possibility of making money. Is ACN an honest company which tells the truth about itself and its business? Look at the missing ING signs for the answer to that.

MAW AANPAKKEN DIT SOORT TUIG !!!!!!!!!

[Gast]

Ik zou eens goed in de spiegel kijken Gastje2. Wat een agressie en frustratie klinkt er uit jouw woorden.

Vertel me eens ... hoe komt dat ?

[Gast]

Ik zou eens goed in de spiegel kijken Gastje2. Wat een agressie en frustratie klinkt er uit jouw woorden.

Vertel me eens ... hoe komt dat ?

Die Spiegel hoef ik niet voor mij te houden, verkoop mijn ziel niet. Iets wat bij ACN gemeengoed is.


Dit is zeer zeker geen agressie.....de waarheid is hard....boefjes !!!

ciaooooooo

[/quote]

[Gast]

Die Spiegel hoef ik niet voor mij te houden, verkoop mijn ziel niet. Iets wat bij ACN gemeengoed is.

Leg eens uit ...

[Gast]

ze weten het niet beter,maar ze gedragen zich alsof ze het weten. kan ook niet anders met een sekte,Zielig

[macsebby]

Ik ben inmiddels vertegenwoordiger bij ACN, en ik ben ervan overtuigd dat het systeem werkt. Het kan misschien tijd duren voor je reslutaten behaald.

ACN is in feitte voor iedereen weggelegd. Inderdaad wordt er 400 euro ingelegd voor het starten van een bedrijfje. dat is logisch, maar de voordelen van de vrijheid van het eigen bedrijfje en de steun en coaching van de juiste team-members kan de doorslag geven.

Ik heb zeer negatieve dingen gelezen in het forum. ACN werkt echt met een gedrachtscode. Netwerkmarketing-ondernemers hebben elkaar als het goed is.

Vriendelijke groet,

Sebastiaan

[Het zaakje stinkt]

Enige tijd geleden begon een kennis van mij contact op te nemen met mijn familieleden. Hij bezocht onder andere mijn ouders thuis, ondanks dat zij hem al meer dan 2 jaar niet gezien hadden. Hij vertelde dat hij sinds kort agent was van ACN Europe. Een bedrijf dat korting levert aan mensen die goedkoper willen bellen.

Ik vertrouwde het aanbod van de kennis van mij niet zo. Ik had nog nooit gehoord van ACN en vond het helemaal niet prettig dat mijn familieleden werden benaderd. Ik vind dat hij op die manier misbruik maakt van het vertrouwen dat mijn familieleden in hem hebben. Hij liet op de ochtend dat hij mijn moeder bezocht een aantal inschrijfformulieren achter, die mijn moeder had beloofd te verspreiden. Op advies van mij is mijn moeder geen ‘lid’ geworden van ACN. Ook heeft zij de formulieren nier verder verspreid en heeft ze de mensen die ze wel een formulier had gegeven gevraagd het niet in te vullen. Blijkbaar kon de kennis volgen of mensen lid werden, want toen er geen nieuwe leden kwamen stond hij kwaad bij mijn moeder op de stoep. Hij wilde direct de formulieren terug. Mijn moeder had de formulieren al weg gegooid, maar durfde dat door de woede van de kennis niet te zeggen. Later kwam een familielid van de kennis nogmaals langs voor die formulieren. Met een smoesje heeft mijn moeder die persoon weten weg te jagen. Mijn moeder was van dit alles nogal overstuur. Ten eerste dacht ze dat mijn kennis op bezoek kwam om gezellig te babbelen, waarbij toevallig ook ACN aan bod kwam. Achteraf bleek dat deze persoon gewoon op haar geld was uit geweest.

Ik wilde de kennis graag aan de tand voelen over het gebeuren. Ik had met hem afgesproken dat hij me thuis op zou halen, waarna we ergens wat zouden gaan eten en het onder andere over ACN zouden hebben. De kennis vertelde dat hij een leuk restaurantje in de omgeving kende. Het verbaasde mij dan ook enorm dat hij mij meenam naar managementcentrum Meerwold (te Groningen) alwaar een bijeenkomst plaatsvond waar mensen die voor ACN ‘werken’ werden voorgelicht. Voor de deur heb ik de kennis van mij duidelijk proberen te maken dat hij niet naar die bijeenkomst moest gaan en dat ik ook niet ging. Toen ik, terwijl een groepje anderen passeerde, letterlijk zei: “volgens mij zijn die mensen van ACN oplichters.”, reageerden zij alsof ik stond te vloeken voor de kerk. Mensen werden enorm boos, waarop ik een taxi heb gebeld en ben vertrokken.

Later heb ik de kennis nogmaals gebeld. Ik heb hem wat dingen gevraagd. Hij vertelde dat hij nu nog niet zoveel verdiende aan ACN (volgens mij helemaal niks), maar dat ging in de toekomst veranderen. Dat was hem beloofd, hij vertrouwde dat en hij geloofde het zelf ook. ACN was volgens hem ook van plan andere diensten aan te gaan bieden, zoals groene stroom en autoverzekeringen, waardoor hij meer zou gaan verdienen. Ik heb hem gevraagd waarom hij mijn familie benaderd had. Hij zei dat men bij ACN als tip had gezegd dat familieleden van vrienden makkelijk lid werden. En hij geloofde dat mijn familieleden er ook beter van werden. Ik vertelde hem dat ik vreemde dingen over ACN had gelezen op internet. Hij zei dat die berichten van concurrenten afkomstig waren die niet tegen ACN konden concurreren. Die gunden ACN volgens hem geen plek op de markt. Hij had op een bijeenkomst gesproken met mensen die wel succes hebben en hun brood verdienen via ACN (acteurs volgens mij). Ook vertelde hij dat ACN wel betrouwbaar was. Het was immers bekend bij de OPTA. Allemaal reclamepraat natuurlijk, dat ik niet uit zijn hoofd kon praten.

Ik heb sinds het hierboven genoemde telefoongesprek geen contact meer gehad met de kennis, die ik tot voor het bovenstaande als goede vriend beschouwde. Ik heb zeer sterk het vermoeden dat ACN met praktijken bezig is die niet door de beugel kunnen. Eigenlijk zou ik mijn kennis niet teveel kwalijk moeten nemen. Ik heb sterk het idee dat ACN hem heeft zitten beïnvloeden. Op zo’n manier dat de collega’s van ACN vrienden lijken. Ze bellen elkaar ook continu en de kennis heeft plotseling allemaal nieuwe vrienden in alle uithoeken van het land, die hij kent via ACN. Daarvoor maakte hij helemaal niet snel vrienden. Ik denk dat ACN dat bewust probeert op te bouwen. Dat ze mensen die een beetje zwak staan in de samenleving nieuwe kansen bieden, waardoor zij afhankelijk worden van ACN. En de enige die daar uiteindelijk wijzer van wordt is ACN zelf.

Ik heb het idee dat ACN met een aantal flitsende presentaties mensen probeert lekker te maken. Ik denk dat ze daarbij niet al te slimme mensen willen hebben. Mensen die de rekenvoorbeelden in zo’n presentatie snel geloven en niet snel door de ballon heen prikken. Ik vertrouw het hele ACN gebeuren voor geen cent.

[Gast]

Toen ik, terwijl een groepje anderen passeerde, letterlijk zei: “volgens mij zijn die mensen van ACN oplichters.”, reageerden zij alsof ik stond te vloeken voor de kerk. Mensen werden enorm boos, waarop ik een taxi heb gebeld en ben vertrokken.

Ik ben iedere week in Meerwold maar dit verhaal heb je uit je grote veel te grote duim gezogen Ga ergens anders zielige onwaarheden vertellen!